13:01:41 Welcome everybody to the first meeting of the economic development reform panel.
13:01:47 I'm Anne Marie Tracy and the co chair, and we've got a lot of business to conduct today and we're all looking forward to getting to that.
13:01:57 As usual, the most exciting item on the agenda is housekeeping. So, Kelly car is going to run us through some basics on zoom that I know I will appreciate and maybe other people will as well.
13:02:09 Thank you so much and Maria I'm Kelly car system to the city manager in the city manager's office before you but today you'll see the bottom menu item that's where you can press mute or to stop your video we do ask that you remain muted until speaking,
13:02:24 but you can keep your video on please. There's also a chat feature this will be recorded downloaded and be made in the minutes it be captured in the minute so if you need to, you know, have a pressing matter while someone's doing a presentation and you
13:02:38 want your question, documented before you forget it, you can write it in the chat feature and and schooling and I will be monitoring that.
13:02:47 Besides that, you know, other fun items if you want to have crazy times with it will be some reactions as well. There is also an offer an opportunity for doing breakout rooms in the future so I'm happy to help.
13:02:59 But if you want to modify your view at the top right corner you can also press view, you can either do speaker mode or gallery, etc. So I'm here to help with any technical assistance as we go along and I will be taking minutes so thank you so much.
13:03:14 Thanks Kelly there. Now there is a feature for raising your hands and where is that you have a couple options if you either click participants and you see as participants.
13:03:26 You can, you know, press that you can also just simply under reactions, you know, do the wave button that's going to be a real easy way so then under my picture you'll see I'm waving by clicking that.
13:03:38 Okay.
13:03:39 All right, so, so we'd like to like to use the hands raise so that I know that you want to participate in school and I had talked about with respect to the chat room.
13:03:51 We'd like to keep it for now to at least more technical issues such as I can't hear I'm having a problem with my technology. We can certainly expand that in the future.
13:04:01 Although I like Kelly suggestion that if you wanted to get a question posed, and you want to jot it down that, that's great. We haven't yet gotten our little tutorial on the sunshine laws and I thought that might be helpful before we try to venture out
13:04:17 too far from that, that anybody have anything that they'd like to bring up in terms of housekeeping right now.
13:04:26 I'd like to stick as much as possible to the agenda. We've got a lot to talk about today and hopefully that way we can get through with everything. So the first thing on our agenda after housekeeping and welcome is a discussion by the solicitor's office.
13:04:43 Emily learner and and Schooley about the Ohio sunshine laws. So if you all are ready. We're ready for you.
13:04:53 afternoon everybody. My name is Emily Warner I made the WC solicitor in a lot apartment, along with me as in Schooley another city slow or assistant city solicitor in the department who will be primarily staffing this group.
13:05:07 I'm going to go ahead and share a presentation that we have.
13:05:14 And this is going to give you an overview about the city's form of government. The sunshine laws, a bit of a primer on public records records retention and open meeting, and then just a hint of ethics laws because we understand that you will be taking
13:05:35 that up in greater depth at subsequent meetings.
13:05:42 So the city of Cincinnati is unique in many ways, beyond you know our landscape and our chili. We also have a fairly unique form of government.
13:05:54 It's outlined in the city's charter.
13:05:56 And the way to think of the city's charter is it's the city's constitution. It can only be amended by a vote of the people what our charter has is, it's a council manager form of government, plus, so we kind of have shorthand referred to it as a stronger
13:06:15 Mayor form of government.
13:06:17 And what this means is we have a mayor, a city council in a city manager in the 1920s, there was a big reform to bring the council manager form of government to Cincinnati.
13:06:31 And so there is a city manager in a council and the mayor who is largely ceremonial.
13:06:38 In 1999, there was a significant charter reform to really strengthen the authority of the mayor, and what that did was, we still have a city manager.
13:06:49 Now the mayor is less of a ceremonial figure, but also has a role as both of the administrative part of the government in the legislative part of the government.
13:07:02 So the mayor is the city's official head and representative. The mayor initiates legislation, and he is part of the budget transmittal to the city council, he can veto legislation.
13:07:26 He refers matters to council committees, and then he makes certain appointments, as you all are aware, and, including. Most importantly, I think the appointment of the city manager, those appointments are made with the advice and consent of counsel.
13:07:37 City Council is our legislative body, sorry nine members on our city council, and they they do the legislative work of the city.
13:07:45 They pass ordinances Motions and resolutions, and they can override a veto of the mayor.
13:07:51 They appropriate all of the city's money and funds, they create their own council committees, and then they approve appointments, and then also have a role in the removal of the city manager, if that is that issue.
13:08:10 The city manager is our chief executive and administrative officer of the city. So she hires and fires most of the employees and the city administration.
13:08:21 The exception to that would be some of our boards and commissions are the hiring and firing authority for their employees.
13:08:28 The city manager is the only official that combine the city through contracts. So any, you know, economic development contracts have to be executed by the city manager for them to be effective.
13:08:42 The city manager is the one who creates the initial budget for consideration is the chief conservator of the piece. And then, I'm, you know, at times can make certain appointments that are also subject to the advice and consent of counsel and the city
13:08:58 manager is.
13:09:01 The idea is that that role is really, that the subject matter expert, the running of the city and the work of the city flows through that office.
13:09:16 The city is very fortunate in that it has a number of boards and commissions that and form and help our decision making about how to serve the citizens, they are served comprised often of citizen volunteers.
13:09:32 Like you all, and their members can be appointed by different authorities. So some boards and commissions are created by the charter, so their authority can only be changed if the charter itself has changed after a vote of the people, and some are part
13:09:57 the Administrative Code, that's going to be a lot of our zoning boards the the zoning Board of Appeals historic Conservation Board, things like that. And then some art setup like this one for a standalone purpose.
13:10:03 And that is often going to be a temporary role.
13:10:06 When you're looking at the boards and commissions. Each one has a different role or responsibilities. Some are quite narrow summer quite broad like our board of house, but all are part of the Municipal Corporation.
13:10:23 And of course, as, as the city solicitor we advise all of the constituent parts of the city, and we also want to guard against liability for the city.
13:10:36 So that's where we would remind you, and we thank you for your service but your service comes with responsibility.
13:10:42 There are special laws that apply to you and to the rest of city officials. And if there's a violation of those laws, it does potentially create liability for the city itself.
13:10:55 And so that's why we want to do our best to educate you and we are always here to advise you.
13:11:03 And so, at this point, we're going to transition to the sunshine law, and
13:11:12 Professor Tracy, if you'd like us to take questions here we can do that or we can wait to the end of the presentation.
13:11:21 Is there a general sense and anybody want to ask a question at this time.
13:11:26 Go ahead guy has been determined whether we have to file epic statements as members of the panel. Well right now. Right now we're on the topic of the city management, so let's take, let's stick with that.
13:11:42 Anything on what Emily's presented so far, just mentioned that we had responsibilities under the epics law.
13:12:05 Correct. And we're going to will will highlight some of that and then we're going to end the presentation just with a brief overview of the ethics laws.
13:12:02 And so we couldn't certainly help answer that question. Okay, Well, and if you want to go ahead and take the reins.
13:12:08 Absolutely. I'm gonna take my shoes.
13:12:17 And I'm not seeing you, you may be there for other folks.
13:12:26 Does anybody see am know Emily she is having some connectivity issues.
13:12:31 Yeah, so, and I'm going to go ahead and I'll share my screen again. That'd be great. Thank you.
13:12:37 And then, and if I think if you turn off your video you might be able to present more easily.
13:12:47 In order for Emily for your video to come through and we'll need to stop sharing hers which is still buffering.
13:13:03 I stopped it for you. So, okay, you should be able to share now.
13:13:10 I'm all right, is mine sharing yet.
13:13:14 I'll stop and started again.
13:13:21 My laptop, it says that amis sharing.
13:13:24 All right, that we did that one. Yep.
13:13:27 There we go. Sorry about that.
13:13:30 Alright, so I have the pleasure of talking to you about the Ohio sunshine laws for anybody that has dealt with them before of ideas certainly that government should be accessible to the public and the public should be able to see and know what what the
13:13:50 government is doing and what their tax dollars are supporting us move the slide Emily next page.
13:13:59 So the first part we're going to talk about is public records, which is one piece of the sunshine laws, so a public record is anything that is kept by a public office that documents the organization function policy decision procedures operations or any
13:14:16 activities of the public office. Okay, so is your thinking about whether something is a public record. Keep that in mind, in the sense that you know, your Christmas card to Anne Marie is not a public record right it does not document any of the functions
13:14:31 of the city.
13:14:47 It is something that is created received or sent by the public office so anything that any of you are sending in your capacity as panel members, dealing with the business that you are conducting would be a public record.
13:14:49 In addition, keep in mind that drafts do count. So if there are multiple drafts of the report that you are tasked with putting together. Those do count as public records.
13:15:04 In terms of whether something documents the city's business, you need to be thinking about the content of the item, not necessarily the format that the item is in so email certainly count.
13:15:19 Emails amongst the members of the panel are certainly public records as our texts.
13:15:26 So, you know, the best advice I can give you in terms of record retention is simply try to avoid using texts, it's going to make everything a lot easier down the road if we begin getting public records requests for the documents relating to the reform
13:15:43 panel.
13:15:44 You will be grateful if you do not have to start searching your texts every time we did a public records request so to the extent you can limit use of texts, I highly recommend that.
13:15:57 In terms of emails, certainly, keeping track of those as important as well.
13:16:05 Next slide please.
13:16:07 There are a number of exemptions to the public records laws, just to highlight a couple of them things that are personally identifying information, things that are exempted by Ohio or federal law.
13:16:22 The most common of which is HIPAA health protected information. I don't think you all will be dealing with that. Another big category is attorney client privilege information, which is when you are asking for legal advice or you are receiving legal advice.
13:16:39 So to the extent you are asking me for some legal advice that would be attorney client privilege, but an important thing to keep in mind is that just because you copy me on an email, does not automatically make it privileged.
13:16:53 Okay, you have to be seeking legal advice or I have to be giving legal advice for it to be privileged so don't think that just by cc me or Andrew or anyone else in the law department that that will automatically make it privileged, it does not.
13:17:10 Next slide.
13:17:14 That leads nicely into record retention, obviously we cannot produce public records if we have not retained the record.
13:17:22 The city has a whole host of record retention schedules.
13:17:29 Generally speaking, the boards and commissions will follow the department schedule in your case you will be looking to the schedule for the clerk of Council, which sets out everything for the, for Council.
13:17:42 You don't need to necessarily know a lot of detail about this is the city, we are our job is in part to help you with retaining records.
13:17:51 So in that vein what I have talked with and Maria about and would highly, highly encourage all of you to do is to copy myself, and potentially Kelly car on whatever emails you're sending to the group.
13:18:08 The benefit of that is that then those emails and any attachments will be captured on our email system, so that when we get a public records request will be able to search ourselves, and then instead of getting an email from me saying hey, we've got a
13:18:24 public records request I need you to search all of your personal emails for the last six months.
13:18:30 It will all be captured in my email account, making your lives a lot easier so that you're not having to search your own personal emails every time we get a public records request.
13:18:42 Instead, you'll get an email from me asking to confirm that yes you've copied me on every single email.
13:18:48 So that's going to help greatly with not only record retention, but also public records requests.
13:18:54 Do keep in mind that for violations, there are some penalties court costs attorneys fees statutory damages. Generally speaking, the attorneys fees are what Jacks up the price of, of any penalty, which probably comes as no surprise to the lawyers in the
13:19:14 group.
13:19:16 Excellent slide.
13:19:21 Finally, open meetings, which is most certainly the most important thing for all of you to keep in mind, Ohio has an Open Meetings Act that requires all public bodies to conduct all of their business.
13:19:37 Take all of their actions and their deliberations in meetings that are open to the public.
13:19:44 So what's a meeting. A meetings a pre arranged gathering of a majority of the members of the public body that is intended to discuss or conduct public business, you need to meet all three requirements for it to be a meeting, and if it is a meeting.
13:20:02 It needs to be open to the public.
13:20:06 Next slide.
13:20:07 So let's talk about what an open meeting is, how do you meet that that qualification that it'd be open. So, it has to be in a location accessible to the public.
13:20:18 We have to provide an appropriate notice we have to do minutes, thank you to Kelly for taking care of the minutes for us.
13:20:28 And the public has to be allowed to attend. Now obviously during this pandemic those items are a little bit more difficult to achieve. The good news is that there are now special rules that are in effect, during the coven pandemic.
13:20:42 That allows us to have this meeting, virtually instead of having it in person so I know that the General Assembly has been extending those special rules as time goes on, depending upon the circumstances of where we are in the pandemics so the fact that
13:20:59 this is being broadcast on city cable is sufficient to allow the public to attend during this pandemic so we are covered in that regard.
13:21:12 You can have specially special and emergency meetings, I don't know how frequent that will be an issue for us, given that we're already meeting every other week, but you can have special and emergency meetings when needed.
13:21:26 We need to send a slightly different notice out that's going to state the specific issues for that meeting.
13:21:32 And then you are limited to talking, or discussion of the items that were listed in the meeting notice, so it's important that you are thorough and sending out that meeting notice because you're going to be restricted to only what's in that notice in
13:21:47 of what you may discuss at that special or emergency meeting in the event we need to reschedule a meeting, we can do that as well, for Executive Session, you can.
13:22:00 If you need to discuss something out of the eye of the public, the law does allow for what's called executive sessions where you can meet privately for very specific limited circumstances.
13:22:13 I'm not sure that too many of them are going to apply it to this group, necessarily, but they are generally things about hiring, firing certain items of business selling property things where the public hearing about those items may somehow jeopardize
13:22:31 the process or, in terms of buying and selling or an economic development deal itself so you do have to follow very specific procedures, which I can certainly walk you through in the event you do want to go into Executive Session and I can certainly provide
13:22:47 some assistance on what items you can discuss in the executive session. The key to remember is that you cannot make a decision. During that executive session.
13:23:00 The next thing that I want to highlight, because this is a very very common area where people get hung up is round robin meetings, and I know that in Maria and I have already had a couple discussions about these.
13:23:14 The today's technology makes it very very easy to inadvertently have a round robin meeting.
13:23:21 And that is where, for example, and Marie has a discussion with two or three people on the panel, and then the next day she has a discussion with two or three other people on the panel.
13:23:47 And when you take all of that together as the whole, she has now had a discussion with the majority, or more of the panel members. So, you cannot get around Open Meetings x requirements by talking to a handful of people consecutively.
13:23:49 That is also a violation. And that is also the reason that she had very carefully. In her email mentioned, please don't hit Reply All. So is we're sending information out to you to get it out for your review and advanced have a meeting, it's very tempting
13:24:07 to hit Reply All and say, Well, my thought is this and and to start chiming in with some substantive discussion that that very quickly becomes a public meeting, and a public meeting violation.
13:24:22 So, the same is true with texts.
13:24:24 So keep that in mind as you hit Reply All. You may inadvertently be creating an Open Meetings violation.
13:24:33 To the extent that you do need to reply to can certainly reply just to myself and to and Marie, and we can make sure that the information gets communicated to everyone else in the group.
13:24:45 As with the public records and records retention there are penalties for a violation of an Open Meetings Act requirement and there's a civil forfeiture again court costs and attorneys' fees, which can also be very very pricey.
13:25:03 And for repeated violations it's $500 per $500 per violation, so that can add up quickly.
13:25:13 So as Emily mentioned, I'm going to be your primary contact within the law department and the staffing, this, this. panel. during the course of its work.
13:25:23 So as part of that
13:25:28 always available to review things, whether it's draft documents, research, what have you to answer any questions you have, that are any kind of related to any legal issues that you're discussing or dealing with.
13:25:45 We're here to answer questions about open meetings, public records, anything like that in the event we do start getting any public records requests, we will be handling the email searches for those and helping get any responses back out to the request
13:26:01 or for you, as well as texts if any of you are using texts, we're going to be asking you to provide us with any texts that you have sent amongst each other for the responses to public records requests.
13:26:15 These days the media has caught on to the use of texts so most, if not all of the requests we're getting are now asking for texts as well as emails, so keep that in mind, but really we're just here as a resource for you for whatever questions you might
13:26:31 have.
13:26:33 And so at this point what questions do you have that we might be able to answer.
13:26:37 And this is a Marie, would you please share what we discussed with respect to retention of documents and the website.
13:26:46 Certainly, so in terms of trying to retain documents, we've, we've done a couple of things we are in the process of and I think we're almost completed with getting a specific email address set up for public's folks to provide input that will be certainly
13:27:07 housed at the city. We're also looking at trying to create a site where we can capture the documents, and resources that all of you are relying on that would be a SharePoint link so that everybody can have access to those as well.
13:27:26 But by and large, my hope is that if everyone.
13:27:33 If everyone is agreeable to copy me on whatever you send out.
13:27:39 That's going to go a long long way in terms of record retention and to the extent there are resources that any of you want to share with the group, I can certainly facilitate that.
13:27:50 As well as make sure that we are keeping track of everything for public records and records retention purposes.
13:27:59 This is Kelly I did want to clarify on the website it won't necessarily be a SharePoint, because there's some enterprise technologies issues with with that and security vulnerability, it will be very similar to the City Planning Commission's packets.
13:28:14 So when you see a planning commission packet it'll be comparable to that so like this presentation, and the subsequent presentations in this meeting will be a part of the minutes, and then posted on our splash page for the economic development reform
13:28:27 panel.
13:28:29 Thanks Kelly.
13:28:31 I knew there was a reason I wanted you involved you're far more tech savvy than I have my hand up.
13:28:38 Yes.
13:28:40 Has there been any thought to issuing city email addresses to the panel members.
13:28:46 And then all email involving the panel.
13:28:50 being transacted being transacted through those email addresses.
13:28:54 That's an excellent question and that is something that we are currently looking into.
13:28:59 Part of part of the concern is the number of commissions and boards, and people that we have on those commissions and boards that that can create some issues but we are looking into that because you're correct that.
13:29:14 That would help facilitate record retention case he also has his hand up as well.
13:29:22 Excellent. Um, you said that we have to provide appropriate notice for meetings and says I guess we're meeting every other week. That is the notice, but for a special meetings you.
13:29:35 You didn't say, what was the appropriate.
13:29:39 I guess time that the notice needs to go out to inform the city.
13:29:45 Well, generally speaking, we do need to get the notices out a day or so in advance of the meeting.
13:29:52 The good news for all of you is that Kelly car and I get to take care of all of that for you. So really all we need from Anne Marie is date, time, and an agenda, and she and I will take care of getting the proper notices put out and up on the website.
13:30:14 In particular, the minimum for a special meeting is going to be 24 hours in advance. and there is sometimes we're public bodies can have emergency meetings but I can't imagine that applying to this, this board.
13:30:28 And also one other thing, I'm an executive session, I know you said you would provide us with what items can be discussed. No, we cannot make a decision.
13:30:39 But if you already if we already know what items, there are, can we get them listed now. What reason I'm saying that because when I was president of recreation, that came up, and it end up going to court with the city.
13:30:53 And so there are persons, you know, when they feel like they're being excluded from the meeting because we don't want them to hear certain things, and they were saying that you know you're talking about things that's not really that doesn't really fall
13:31:06 under executive session and so I'm hearing you say that you will let us know as we go but it probably be good if we know what are the items we can actually talk about I know as hiring and firing and different things like that but what are the items.
13:31:20 Certainly.
13:31:21 What I can do is I will, I will put together a list and I will get that circulated to all of you, indicating exactly what the items are given the focus of your work, I think many of them are likely not going to be applicable to this particular panel,
13:31:37 but I'm happy to send out a brief email that will list every single one of them.
13:31:47 Thank you. That's something.
13:31:48 Yes, I'm guys question reminded me that I did get an email from probably a member of the public and so I wonder.
13:31:58 In the absence of having an city, email address, what should we do if we get contacted by the member, a member of the public should we just forward it to Kelly and, and.
13:32:08 Yes, please. that would be great.
13:32:11 And like again, where we currently have an email address that we're working to get set up, which will hopefully be done by the end of the day today I talked with our IT folks, earlier this morning.
13:32:24 They were just having a couple technical difficulties in making sure that it was, was up and running. So, I will circulate that email address, as well, so that you all have that.
13:32:38 Thank you. Bernadette, did you have a question, yes I do.
13:32:47 Just a couple of you mentioned them when you talked about the legal advice. And, you know, heaven forbid that I would have any other legal advice, but does that directly relate to the panel panel things that have related or any other.
13:32:59 If I was on another committee for example and needed to ask, say somebody from the solicitor's office or someone from this committee, from information.
13:33:17 Does that prohibit me from asking or does it direct just information that's directly related to the panel. I think it's helpful to remember what our role is as city attorney's. So we're only attorneys for the city and its constituent parts.
13:33:28 So we are only attorneys for the city and its constituent parts. So the only legal advice that we can give you is related to your service on this board.
13:33:40 Gotcha. Okay. And one more question I had when you talked about the round robin. If you have something with different groups, and it's not the same subject for each individual group that Anne Marie will be taking care of is that still not appropriate
13:33:51 for us to be able to do.
13:33:54 When you, we say different group I want to make sure that I'm understanding what you mean by different group, okay when I saw when I found that on your slide.
13:34:03 Yeah, yeah, group of people up here in the group down there and another one the peer so it was like three or four different groups of people which consisted of the circle and the round robin I'm assuming.
13:34:15 Right, right. So, in terms of this particular panel. You need to make sure that you're not communicating with a majority of folks on the panel.
13:34:27 Outside of an open meeting so outside of a regularly scheduled meeting.
13:34:32 Now if you are on three different conditions for the city.
13:34:37 Each one of them is their own group, and you cannot speak with the majority of that particular group, without risking and Open Meetings violation.
13:34:46 But since there are nine of you. The magic numbers five.
13:34:52 So, you know, I would not reach out to, you know, five individuals in this on this panel to say what do you think about x, or what do you think about why that's where you're going to run into trouble.
13:35:05 And with the round robin if you talk to two people on Monday, and two people on Tuesday and one person on Wednesday you've now hit that that magic number.
13:35:14 And that's our problem comes in. Okay, even if it's not the same conversation with each one of those people.
13:35:23 If it's the same subject matter Yes, that's still a problem, but if not, if it's the business right and that was my question. If it was not the same subject man, that was my question.
13:35:33 Okay, if I wanted to talk to Anne Marie and Tim, right, and it was something totally different because we're serving on this panel.
13:35:44 Then if I wanted to talk to Bobby, and Mr Gutenberg for example, about something totally different from that it so I mean I'm different members of the panel but not about anything that would be related necessarily to the group, I'm just trying to figure
13:36:01 out who I can talk to women about what I guess, is my question.
13:36:08 Understand, if it's not relating to the, to the work of the group you can talk to whoever you want whenever you want as often as you want. And again, it is probably in the group I didn't want to go messing up just talking to somebody, and then well you
13:36:22 three were talking together and you're all on the committee but no we were talking about going to happy hour. I mean, you know, right. But okay, sure that that is totally fine.
13:36:34 If you run into people in the grocery store and you're, you're chatting about the snow that we keep getting your you're totally fine. Okay. All right.
13:36:51 Are you run into trouble. Yeah, thank you. Emily, are you going to address you said something about ethics laws and I know guy had a question, is there something else you wanted to add about Ohio ethics.
13:36:59 So just briefly, um, you know, I think that you all are very aware that there are state ethics laws that apply to the city and violations of the ethics laws are criminal violations.
13:37:12 But they don't. So here's where it's going to be a little confusing for you all, is that you are, you know, public officials for public records and Open Meetings purposes but because your service on this panel is, you know, very limited you are providing
13:37:31 advice to the city, and you're not expanding funds that are apart from.
13:37:52 So, while you want to become familiar with the ethics laws and because of the subject matter of this, this group, and those ethics laws don't, the restrictions don't apply to you do to your service on this group.
13:38:06 So you do not need to, and you would not need to fill out the disclosures, or things like that, if there is something about your particular situation that you want us to double check in, but we're happy to have that conversation, a lot of ethics questions
13:38:24 in general are very fact intensive. And so, it's usually best for us to have a conversation one on one with you.
13:38:35 But, but that's it. So, your public officials for sunshine law, but not for those ethics restrictions.
13:38:46 Any other questions, there's Alicia has a question there. I didn't see it I'm sorry Alicia.
13:38:52 I'm going back to retention, is there anything that we need to be mindful of with respect to any notes that we may be taking during the meetings.
13:39:01 So, I'm sorry it's muted. I. Is it is it their notes that you are using for your own purposes that you don't intend to share with anybody else. Those are not public records, those are just your, your own personal notes.
13:39:17 If there are notes that you are using and you're intending to share them with someone else on the panel. And then those becomes starting to document the business of the panel and those could be subject to public records.
13:39:30 Got it. Thanks, something.
13:39:37 Sorry, I'm very sorry. I'll let you take it. yeah there you've got one from guy and then Andrew guards wants to speak. Okay, go ahead.
13:39:44 So I've gotten
13:39:48 an email from a neighbor that says, oh, I've said you've been appointed to this.
13:39:53 The panel.
13:39:54 Thank you for server, and I gotten a couple of texts my kids saying congratulations there are these public records that I need to segregate.
13:40:08 If it's something that's personal to you that's just saying congratulations or thank you that no, because it's not documenting the activities of this, this panel.
13:40:18 But if it is something from a neighbor that says, I really care about economic development and I'd like you to consider this, then yes you would have to keep that.
13:40:30 Thank you.
13:40:30 Andrew did you have something for I just wanted to quickly add that.
13:40:35 I know there may be still questions around housekeeping.
13:40:39 The law department in the city administration are here to support the work of this group. We want to allow you to focus on the substantive issues that are in front of you, so please do reach out to me or Emily, or and, or Kelly, with any questions that
13:40:55 you have and we will we will work it out with you.
13:41:00 And that includes if you have questions arising out of this presentation today we'd be happy to follow up with you on after the fact. So thank you all again for contributing your time and energy to this, this effort.
13:41:13 Thank you, Andrew and Emily and am thank you so much for your presentation. And again, I would encourage us individually to contact them if they have, if you have any questions.
13:41:23 I asked Gutenberg or to put together a little recap of the ordinance, as this as a public meeting, there may be people who are unfamiliar with the ordinance that gives us our, our charge, what we've been asked to accomplish.
13:41:37 And so guy if you would take a few minutes and do that now that'd be great.
13:41:43 I just shared my screen and I have a two page PowerPoint presentation.
13:41:48 The economic development reform panel, of course has the mission of recommending the best ways to improve the city's economic development process to insulated from public political influence and criminals and we all know that from the audience because
13:42:02 I'm sure you've read it, then the ordinance.
13:42:06 The enabling ordinance instructs the panels at the panels work should include at least nine activities for discussion purposes these nine activities might be grouped under a number of different broad topics and let's see if I can get to my.
13:42:20 There you go.
13:42:22 The first topic would be to collect information from reliable sources for all tasks and propose a code of conduct.
13:42:32 And then I've listed the three of the nine points that I think might be considered under that category. The second category would be proposed ways to ensure the separation of development incentives from campaign contributions.
13:42:48 And again, I've included the three points are from the nine that I think are under that category.
13:42:59 The third category is pretty interesting advise on the effectiveness of providing public incentives for development.
13:43:16 This is going to be interesting for us because if taken seriously we would have to engage in a pretty extensive economic development economic analysis of the part of the city's probably consent is and how that relates to development, etc.
13:43:24 So, you know, one question or issue I have is, is do we really want to address number three, because that's going to take an awful lot of work that not that we don't want to do work but it's going to be go well beyond what one to involve and the fourth
13:43:52 is conducting forensic audit. I don't think we need to worry about that because the city's going to do that separately from the panel, even though it was included in the words. Having 7070s things I think it would be useful for you all to listen to what
13:43:57 to what the mayor and date man said about our panel with on February, the third when they find many hang ups the ordinance appointments and let me, let me pass an audio file it's fairly short or make a few comments and then as Councilman man who's the
13:44:12 author of this legislation that say a few words.
13:44:18 I want to talk about what this is and what it is not.
13:44:23 Let's talk about what it is not for so we can end it all the positive things that it is.
13:44:29 This is not meant to be the end all be all of the discussion of reform and ethics. I think it's a very important piece, I'll get into it is not an inquisition to what happened in the past, obviously there's law enforcement involved into what happened
13:44:45 in the past.
13:44:46 And there's a frenzy. That vice mayor Smitherman has proposed that is being discussed, and will be discussed, and probably pursued.
13:44:56 Nor is it precluding other ideas that might come forward and other civic groups that might post its own recommendations for reforms, and it doesn't preclude any member of this council or myself or anyone else to initiate will propose ideas that they think
13:45:12 should be taken up.
13:45:14 As we look at reform and culture in general.
13:45:22 What it is, is at least one panel, among many.
13:45:29 That will have some imprimatur from this council which passed this unanimously
13:45:39 consisting of people that are diverse in their opinions and their life experiences where they come from.
13:45:48 And, in particular, in my opinion, as I've said multiple times and appreciate everyone's support
13:45:55 are pretty amazing, including but not limited to the fact that the chair of this panel and candidly I don't even know what her opinion is on.
13:46:06 What are the best reforms.
13:46:08 But I do know that she was the chairwoman of the Ethics Commission, the Ohio Ethics Commission.
13:46:14 And I know that she was a judge and I know that she started off working in the city solicitor department many years ago and has taught ethics at Xavier.
13:46:22 I don't want it to be obscured from the discussion that these are volunteers, they're not getting paid. This isn't exactly a plum assignment.
13:46:33 They're going to be giving up every other Fridays at a minimum, and in research and reading. Beyond that, to give it their best shot.
13:46:42 It's also the case that all of their meetings are going to be in public on city cable.
13:46:48 And people who have ideas can present those ideas to this panel, and their ideas, and discussions.
13:46:58 And I'm confident with the chair woman ship of Emory Tracy that those will all be fairly and fully heard.
13:47:05 And in the old, the other members of this group, which I won't go into now.
13:47:09 But having said all that I think it is a bit of courage that it took for this council.
13:47:16 To start the process of reform and I want to make it clear, it has been mislabeled as my effort is not this was City Council's idea and specifically authored by a councilman man.
13:47:26 And I want to applaud him for that and asked him to say a few words, Mr. President.
13:47:33 Well thank you and I. First I want to say, I'm impressed. As I told you when you gave me the name so the appointees I'm impressed with the panel you've put together.
13:47:45 and a couple times I've heard, am a retired judge Emery Tracy speak, and she's in charge, and I have no idea where she's going going burger is someone I've known since we served on council together.
13:48:01 No one knows where he's going. I assure you, Dean of the law school Verna Williams is very much a person that I'm sure has will develop important ideas about reform.
13:48:17 So it's going to be great to see and the rest of the folks. Each offer something that is significant and important, and
13:48:28 where it's going to end, I don't know, and I think the open public process is critical. I think that the you know the legislation throughout nine areas of possible review but also makes clear that we are looking for some serious recommendations to assure
13:48:51 the citizens of this community, that when it comes to the development process. We are going to have a set of rules and set of practices that remove any possible doubt that decisions are made for anything except the best interest of the people in this
13:49:14 community. That's my presentation.
13:49:17 But you know if there any questions, I can put back up the slide of the four points that I pointed out. I've also said it to the city manager PDF of the slides if you want conference.
13:49:32 Thank you God. Dan you had your hand up and I'm I don't know when you put it up I missed it and Bobby I see you've got your hand up to. So Dan want to go ahead.
13:49:41 I was just going to comment to item three that guy had on the slide I forget the exact verbiage that it was but the,
13:49:54 you know, I feel like one of my key roles here is to is to help advise to you guys.
13:50:06 the effectiveness and necessity of the incentives.
13:50:12 And so, guy. I think you're accurate to
13:50:20 to go back and look at it may not be that that's going to be really tough, but i i think i can in due time. provide extreme clarity on on the effectiveness.
13:50:38 With a lot of a variety of different kinds of projects in Cincinnati and outside of Cincinnati, that will help give everyone clarity on this issue.
13:50:53 Thanks Dan I think that'd be very, very helpful and it ties into what some folks have suggested already. And then Bobby you had something there I think, building on Dan's point, what I would say is, number three.
13:51:08 Would I think it would be helpful or at least how I picture it is that it's very tangential to really, number one, because I really thinking about it in the scope of the process and how council members, interact in that process.
13:51:25 And so, I think it's great if we can get a baseline of what the best practices, what the needs are within economic development from Dan, and also what the current city practice is and processes, so that then we can actually present findings and learnings
13:51:44 on number one, and recommendations particularly one Gee, I think it's a really large focus I think of what, given the broad scope of this group is really what we're here for.
13:52:00 Thank you, Bobby.
13:52:02 You know when you distill all this down and I was trying to think of the best way that we could tackle this. It seems like our assignment is to examine and make recommendations regarding economic economic development projects, and the influences and factors
13:52:18 that come into play with respect to those projects, and specifically what are highlighted our campaign contributions to elected officials and the second would be public incentives visa v campaign contributions and whether and how the city meets its goals.
13:52:35 And you all have started and let me go over the, and send out some of the suggestions that folks had for people we want to bring in what I'm what we're trying to do now is to turn our discussion.
13:52:51 And I think I you can you can turn off your screen and thanks so much for doing that
13:52:58 today really what we need to do is figure out okay now what do we do going forward. I counted and you may have to, including today's meetings, we have 13 meetings, up until like the very end of July, and obviously if we were supposed to turn in something
13:53:17 August 1, unless maybe we're like some of the burners law students or what have you. We can't wait till the night before to do our draft so really maybe we're looking at, towards the end of June, completed as completing the gathering of information and
13:53:35 so forth. So, you all have suggested, and a couple of these.
13:53:42 More than one person has suggested getting in this Cincinnati. Economic Development Director, the Director of Planning, or the city economic development attorney election last specialist, including from the Ohio Election Commission, or some or some other
13:54:01 Ohio election law expert, the executive director of the Ohio Ethics Commission, his name is actually Paul Nick, it was, was flipped in the handout, which I think he's cursed with I think that happens a lot.
13:54:15 And then you also got the name of the PC Community Center. Excellent. Not sure if that was on there, but somebody sent me a suggestion like some people might be sending you a suggestion.
13:54:28 So, so the way forward. What are your suggestions.
13:54:35 Let's open it up for discussion.
13:54:42 Would you like to see it mean, another way to look at it is that we have the you know the basic information that we need to gather, so that we're on the same page about development like how does it work what what is the process, and I think there's a
13:54:56 whole continuum of expertise on this area and I would be on the low end of the continuum and I think Tim and Dan would be, you know, on the high end and maybe more more of you so it'd be nice if we could be more on the, on the same page, and then perhaps
13:55:11 we can go into or at the same time get into best practices and then started start to formulate our recommendations guy go ahead.
13:55:20 Well I think we start collecting information.
13:55:28 Yeah, I assume, we have to prioritize what information we want first you suggested development director so maybe that's a place to start. Whether we start with local people are people from other jurisdictions so we need to start to collect information,
13:55:43 one of the exceptions to the Open Meetings law is that we can receive information without violating the Open Meetings mall so we could ask our solicitor our chair could suggest to our solicitor that we'd be sent certain
13:56:03 research information and we can all review it. We know we can't talk about it.
13:56:07 But we can at least prepare ourselves and educator. So, just like we got the opinion from the city manager and the city solicitor on the city manager form of government, but we ought to start collecting information.
13:56:26 Yeah, I'm sorry, sort of wave at me if you have a question so I don't always see the hand up there but go ahead Dan and then burner.
13:56:36 Um, maybe a way to start.
13:56:41 Yeah, we're kind of facing a large mountain. And the way to tackle it is to just start putting one foot in front of the other, and maybe a way to begin would be at the right moment is, let me kind of walk this group through, how, how we do it.
13:57:04 And, and the reason I say that is because of a 30 year track record of kind of doing it correctly whenever without ever really having done anything inappropriate for a long time, and the.
13:57:21 And it may allow this panel to ask more appointed and difficult questions to the experts that come in. And so maybe Tim ways in and I weigh in. And it's, it's almost an open question where people can really ask questions of how that's done so that we
13:57:43 can gather a little bit of information kind of internally.
13:57:49 And, and then when market comes in front, or, or other folks from the city that that everybody here has a baseline of information of how it works in the real world.
13:58:05 Just that was just a thought is, is that something, Dan that you could do, like, could we devote a meeting to development and have both.
13:58:18 Both sides of it the city's development director.
13:58:22 And then, you all are you suggesting we do those at different times.
13:58:30 No, they could they could be together.
13:58:34 But I was trying to help build a base of knowledge, and it doesn't need to be an entire meeting I would think in a half an hour.
13:58:45 I could walk people through pretty clearly and have time for some questions just to get a base level up of how of how this works. And remember that my experiences are not my experiences are just a part of, of what I think what we need to be looking into.
13:59:31 And I can speak to how we handle political contributions and how we keep those very separate. And I'm. And because all that's public and because there's nothing
13:59:47 that we've done that, that, that isn't public, and that that I think is been proper.
13:59:55 I'm happy to share that and I think that's really, honestly, I have no legal background, and I have no real ethics background and so I'm really almost feel like I almost, I know I'm on the committee but I almost feel like I'm a just a source of information
14:00:11 for really the experts here, honestly.
14:00:16 Stan Verna.
14:00:20 Thanks. I'm curious about. I noticed, we're supposed to provide best practices and so I would be interested to know places where they're doing it right.
14:00:34 You know, are there model, cities out there are there cities in Ohio, I mean that that's why the executive director of the Ohio ethics commission would be helpful maybe identify places in our own state that are doing it well particularly since the charter
14:00:48 the charter form of government. Seems I think it's throughout the state for all of the cities.
14:00:53 I think that would be really helpful.
14:01:01 That's it.
14:01:04 On that note, I had a preliminary discussion with Paul Nick probably, I don't know when all this started three or so weeks ago and he can bring and who's the head of the Ohio Ethics Commission, he he's aware of best practices.
14:01:21 In this regard, not only in Ohio, but nationally and in Canada. There is an organization of ethics directors, but who look at all of this and he's, he's was president of it up to a couple years ago, I think, and he said he'd be glad to gather information.
14:01:40 I think you'd be a really valuable source and he started telling me about reforms that Cleveland had made and Columbus has made specifically about these kinds of issues.
14:01:49 So I think they're, they're probably some.
14:01:52 If you think it's a good idea we could have him come in, there's probably other people too who are just gems in terms of of tapping them for for the best practices.
14:02:03 I think that would be really helpful and I would, I would also be interested I know I mentioned Ohio but I think it would be great for us to get some information about what's happening nationally so that we can really you know come to the table with some.
14:02:15 These are really best practices in the in the in the country.
14:02:20 Great. Thanks, Tim.
14:02:22 Here's a couple of thoughts. First of all, I like Dan suggestions and burners suggestions.
14:02:29 I do want to emphasize that while the panel rules have directed us towards the economics of development, a big chunk of that is the zoning and land use features and the process that's involved in that, in the city, and how that can impact or be impacted
14:02:53 as a part of a development consideration, which is why I had suggested that in addition to the economic development director, the planning folks to come into this as well.
14:03:05 I do think that we ought to be looking at disclosure issues and how that gets dealt with which was one of the reasons why I suggested. I think we need some guidance from a good elections constitutional lawyer, and that could come from one of the law schools,
14:03:27 it could come from there. There are several attorneys in this area, who practice in that area, what can we recommend. With regard to donations, and frankly, off the top of my head I don't think we can do a lot about the amounts of donations, but we may
14:03:49 be able to do more with the disclosure of donations and how that gets spelled out. The other thing that I'd like to see us do fairly early in this process is to schedule perhaps separately from the meetings that we've already got planned a public hearing,
14:04:09 just to ask the public.
14:04:12 What do you think, what are your recommendations and some of the stuff we're going to hear is just angry people complaining, but other folks are perhaps going to have some very good ideas that we ought to be thinking about, and compared to some of the
14:04:30 best practices that are being identified in the manner that Verna suggested, and public input is something that I would like to talk about today, so we definitely will do that.
14:04:42 What else what else are the type of experts or resources.
14:04:53 With respect to the each of these folks that we've been talking about there may be related city charter clauses or the Ohio ethics laws or Ohio elections laws so I would assume we could get them to bring in those resources that we could, we could look
14:05:03 at any other areas that you're thinking, or an order in which you'd like to proceed.
14:05:11 Go ahead guy.
14:05:14 Go ahead guy. Um, I mentioned this earlier, but in Murray, it would be nice if you could contact the Ohio Ethics Commission and maybe the Ohio Elections Commission and ask them for best practices resources.
14:05:29 I'm sure the publications that are already available.
14:05:33 And we could then what send them to Miss Julie.
14:05:38 And she could then distributed to the members of the, of the panel, but I would like to do some reading and educate myself on best practices.
14:05:50 And I think that's going to allow me to, you know, know the right questions to ask and the right directions to follow.
14:05:59 Okay, could you get us some research materials, I can because one of the nice things about our job here is that we actually have a lot of helpers so I it's my understanding, Andrew that your office is willing to help with all of this.
14:06:16 And so, that's, I think that's part of what they're, they're involved in this for so they can do the Reach out find the Find the statutes and so forth.
14:06:28 The.
14:06:30 Would it be, would it be acceptable for folks because I personally wouldn't want to get dumped with a whole bunch of stuff at the same time. Would it be helpful if we could see sort of troubleshoot when we could get these different folks available to
14:06:48 come speak with us, and then associated with that person. And, and I can sort of do do a timeline or a schedule, and then associated with that person.
14:07:03 Get the applicable statutes best practices what other resources are connected to that topic so that we can sort of focus on will be able to just focus on one thing at a time but to make it a little more straightforward.
14:07:18 Would that work for folks and Alicia you've got your hand up I know, and Bobby sorry, Felicia, go ahead. Dan's point i do think it would be helpful, at least initially to start off with the development process just to get a real understanding of how it
14:07:34 works what's going on and then from there, build out to the other issues that we're looking at.
14:07:40 Could you do could we do that, Alicia in the same meeting or would you rather have that in a different meeting.
14:07:47 I guess it depends on how long it would take, but I have no issues with combining it, you know, with some other subject during a meeting. Okay. Great.
14:07:55 Thanks, Bobby.
14:07:58 I was, I'm going to throw a bit of a wrench in that in say that. I think the economic development process is is incredibly complex and I think we've all admitted that outside of a couple of us.
14:08:11 We don't have the full understanding we don't all have, you know, the expertise that say Dan has one of the things that I think is low hanging fruit for this group is looking at some really basic ethics training disclosure and compliance issues that could
14:08:29 also serve as a baseline and a lens, looking at the economic development process. So I guess my preference would actually be to look first at the baseline of best practices in ethics and compliance and then that way we have a baseline to when we're looking
14:08:47 at the economic development process to look at it through that lens.
14:08:54 Thanks, Bobby.
14:09:00 Other thoughts
14:09:07 Well, going back to my, my, I guess it was a suggestion.
14:09:13 Would I saw some heads nodding but I don't want to just make any assumptions, would it would it be acceptable, then to start with this list of a half a dozen errors, maybe it's five areas, see where we can get speakers and align up a collection of best
14:09:32 practices and statutes and so forth. With those folks with their attendance at a meeting.
14:09:40 That makes sense. And that would be good a good way for us to prepare for the speakers and to be able to have informed questions to ask.
14:09:48 When they come, is there, Bobby just go ahead Dan me, would it be helpful and more efficient, that
14:10:00 the head of planning and the head of economic development and Tim and I sit at a table, and almost, it's almost a, a roundtable discussion a little bit for the four of us to.
14:10:17 I'm trying to think of the most efficient way, because sometimes it's zoom it. It's a little clumsy, to ask questions, would it be, is there an efficient process to try to download this committee with information.
14:10:36 Even if it were at City Hall and we went into the planning room and we all sat six feet apart. Is there an efficient way, a safe way that we could possibly meet in a public open forum and almost have a panel discussion.
14:10:59 And I'm just I'm just thinking out loud, have a really efficient way to kind of at least do the data dump on on how it works in Cincinnati and what are the current situations of how development gets done.
14:11:16 Is there an efficient way to do that, then anyone can think of that would be really helpful.
14:11:24 I think we're talking about maybe two different levels of
14:11:29 information. Some of us are on that I really need the basic stuff first. And then maybe the next level would be just exactly what you're talking about having having more of a discussion of people who are involved in the process would that satisfy what
14:11:47 you're aiming for in terms of efficiency
14:11:52 is in favor.
14:11:54 Some of us are pretty basic.
14:11:57 So I don't know that I would really, I think I would need to have some foundation, personally before I understood your nuances, but but I like that, and that would be that would be a nice change of pace.
14:12:10 I'm not sure and I can, I can work with Kelly to see what tech resources are available by way of technology. I'm.
14:12:19 I haven't had my I've had my first shot I haven't had my second shot yet. That's what I was just thinking I you know I I really, I would be hesitant to have a in person meeting, that's just that's just want to throw that out there.
14:12:57 and check what time it is I turned off my cell and so I could not get phone calls. Okay, so we do have, is there anything else, me see. I think I've got some good marching orders.
14:13:01 The next thing I do want to discuss and we can put it together with the conversation we've already had is, is how do we get public input. And there's a couple different ways we can do that and and and I have discussed some ideas and you want to talk about
14:13:18 some of the ideas we talked about.
14:13:33 It'll be a city of Cincinnati address where folks can submit ideas, thoughts, questions that information will go up on the webpage related to this panel so folks can find it.
14:13:46 I will be sending out the address to all of you as well. Once I have confirmation it's up and working so that you can share it with whomever you might come in contact with.
14:13:57 So that would be the first first way to gather some public input in terms of, for lack of a better term, live input.
14:14:09 We talked about potentially having a meeting.
14:14:13 As I think either Tim or maybe guys suggested I can't remember who made the suggestion, where the public could participate and bring their ideas forth, go ahead and share those live with the group with the understanding you may get a handful of very unhappy
14:14:30 people but you may also get some great ideas that you know that was part of our discussion as well, some boards and commissions and certainly Council, allow for public comment at the start of every meeting, given the limited time that you all have.
14:14:49 I think the consensus and Marie, and I came to was that it might not be the best idea to eat up your time doing public comment at every single meeting, but that is certainly a possibility if that's what the group chooses to do or two just reserve one
14:15:05 meeting for public comment. You could also schedule a special meeting for public comment if that's what you chose to do.
14:15:15 And then, in terms of the emails Kelly and I'll be monitoring the email account.
14:15:21 And we can send that information to all of you however you would like it if you want us to forge you
14:15:31 might build a new and can you repeat that we've sort of lost you. Sorry.
14:15:37 So with the email address we could do that, a bunch of different ways, Kelly and I'll be monitoring it.
14:15:46 I can for it all of you every single email we get, if that's what you choose, if you say Heck no too much, don't want all those emails, Kelly and I will undertake to summarize those and send out a summary is on a regular schedule to you so that you have
14:16:02 that input.
14:16:05 And then certainly any of the emails you want to view in a full we're happy to forward just those emails to you. So, it's really up to the group on on how you want to structure the the public input piece of it.
14:16:17 And I think the other thing we talked about is that we could have public input public hearing early in the process so we would have have our radar out for things we need to be looking for and then as we get towards the end and we're getting to the point
14:16:34 of recommendations and so forth, have Heaven, another different public hearing at that point.
14:16:41 You had your hand up.
14:16:45 Um, yeah i think i agree with you. You're my comment was going to be, you know, until we have something to present or some kind of framework and maybe the ordinances the framework.
14:16:56 Yeah, it really wouldn't be useful to have a public forum. But, well, at least I would want to know what we're getting by way of public comment. If nothing else, you know, I'd like to know, I don't necessarily think that I want to see each and every email
14:17:14 but I would like to know the tenor of what has been given to us by the public. And then, you know, maybe we do have a public forum of based on the word itself.
14:17:29 That's all we we basically have this point we could say to the public of, here's the ordinance.
14:17:36 What do you think we should be doing.
14:17:39 And then perhaps later have another public forum when we have more concrete ideas.
14:17:46 I like that approach.
14:17:49 But in the meantime I want to know what people were saying.
14:17:53 So what about the I heard saw different people nodding and so forth. What about an suggestion that the we leave it to, to her and her, her team to summarize the emails.
14:18:11 And then if we wanted to see more, we could just ask for it could be we're going to get a ton it could be we don't get any Verna.
14:18:22 I like the idea of summarizing the emails, just, you know, and we can you know check on that down the line just because I don't want to get inundated with emails, particularly if they if they you know they can organize organize the emails, you know, the
14:18:37 magically.
14:18:38 I also like the idea that that the guy in and in Tim agree with with a hearing at the beginning, that's based on the ordinance, it could include your dance, it could ask specific questions and things that we were particularly interested in hearing from
14:18:51 a public about. And then we could have something later and then, now I have a question, which is, are we required to afford the public, an opportunity to comment on our recommendation before we turn it over.
14:19:10 And, or would you like to comment I don't believe so. But let me give it have the experts, give the answer.
14:19:16 No know you're technically you're not I mean you can you can go ahead and make your recommendations and they are what they are. I think it's really up to you how you want to manage the public perception piece of the process.
14:19:35 This is Andrew, if I can jump in to add to that.
14:19:38 It may be helpful to keep in mind also that the result of this process will be a series of recommendations to city council, then city council itself will be having its own public hearings to discuss those and engage the public.
14:19:50 Yeah, that's helpful.
14:19:56 Anything else on the public in and put piece.
14:20:05 I do have a comment.
14:20:10 You know, we're really putting a lot on our plate.
14:20:16 Yeah, we need to be sure we can we can do everything we're putting on our plate public hearings,
14:20:23 etc. That's up that's a lot, how many meetings, do you think need to say we have between now and August 3 not including any additional ones we have 13.
14:20:32 Yeah.
14:20:33 Well, that's one of the reasons I got your points. Excellent. One of the reasons I tried to distill the work is I, I really see the focus of the work that we are would be able to accomplish is to look at look at campaign contributions and public incentives
14:20:51 and the, the issues related more directly to that, I think, you know, doing a long term tracking of the relationship between doing studies is really just not within our capacity.
14:21:07 And I'm happy to go with the will of the group in terms of those comments.
14:21:18 Go ahead, yeah i i agree with you and I also think this doesn't preclude us from making a recommendation if we feel something needs to be studied more to encourage council to do so.
14:21:28 So I think we should look at it and in that lens to to say, we are, we have a limited scope, but we can actually suggest that they look into specific pieces for them.
14:21:40 I love.
14:21:44 Yeah, well keep in mind I think Council has made it absolutely clear that they're going to do the forensic audit.
14:21:50 The forensic audit Yes, they're going to take care of that Landsman I think suggested, or maybe Smitherman, and they're going to take care of that. So that part of the, of the ordinance part, some party.
14:22:04 I don't think we have to worry about at all.
14:22:08 Anything else we are now in the category of either continuing this discussion or other business.
14:22:21 Well hearing nothing I think, I think, you gave me my marching orders and that is to start gathering the resources that we need and putting them down on the calendar and letting you know about it.
14:22:38 Are we good.
14:22:41 I would like to note that if everybody's good guys got his thumbs up. We will actually have ended the meeting, a couple minutes early.
14:22:50 Which I think is an excellent way to start our set of meetings so thank you all very much, much thanks to an and Andrew and Emily from a solicitor's office, we really appreciate your help and keeping us out of trouble.
14:23:09 So, and we do not expect to convene again until February 26, is that correct. That's right.
14:23:18 Anne Marie Kelly car here. And maybe this goes to Emily or Andrew Do we need motions for there to be formal decisions made because in relationship to the thematic email grouping and I just would like potentially emotion to be introduced or.
14:23:31 Please explain how the task force differs from a typical Robert's Rules of law.
14:23:37 For decisions I and told me that we do, which I forgot about we do need motions and I'm not sure if it's for that kind of decision. So and can you help us out.
14:23:48 You're still, you're still here.
14:23:50 Andrew I know that you unmuted as well so I don't know if you want to, to,
14:23:58 I suppose.
14:24:01 It's not going to hurt. To do that, if that's really what the group decides I think that there was a consensus, you may want to just confirm that and Marie.
14:24:09 Okay, is there emotion.
14:24:16 So, mu.
14:24:23 What is the yeah I don't think they have emotion is the body to accept public input through emails that are that are categorized and summarized and sent to us by the city administration.
14:24:34 And did you want to include a public hearing component to that motion.
14:24:40 Are we going to establish a public hearing, I mean I can do one way Darshan. Yeah, I want to wait on okay so I'm on the motions on the move for emails to be okay, great.
14:24:57 With with I'm sorry to interrupt with mid motion I think that's a violation actually it's not in order.
14:24:59 But I just want to make very clear that there isn't a legal requirement that you adopt a particular procedural stands here.
14:25:11 So you could say we're going to do all all decisions by consensus. Or you could say we're going to do emotions, it what it's what you find to be most effective in making decisions and moving forward.
14:25:24 We can't we do things by consensus and then do motions where there doesn't seem to be consensus.
14:25:35 Absolutely.
14:25:39 I thought there was consensus that we receive emails emails receiving the public will be summarized by stay up and I apologize for referring to you as stale
14:25:51 also hope that there's consensus that there's any particular email we want to see
14:26:03 Yeah. And then in terms of moving forward we have consensus on what we've discussed already in terms of gathering resources and speakers and materials associated with that topic.
14:26:17 as we move forward.
14:26:20 Tim I can't hear you, Tim.
14:26:24 Sorry, I was being a smartass I think the consensus is in Murray you take care of that.
14:26:31 Well, it'll be with a team I guarantee. And by the way, you may have resources, of which, you know, you may know somebody who's on the Ohio Elections Commission who is excellent or.
14:26:48 I know we're, we, we may need and I didn't mean, I think I left it out. But I think there was, Tim it might have been you that talked about maybe a constitutional lawyer or professor or somebody.
14:27:01 When we got to the idea of.
14:27:04 First Amendment and contributions and that can I'd be very interested in burners take on that she may have somebody who recommended in that regard.
14:27:11 And we don't have to do it right now, but if you all would send to and so that she and I can discuss it. Your any recommend any additional recommendations you have that would be fabulous.
14:27:28 And
14:27:30 perhaps at the next meeting we should set a date for the public hearing on the audience.
14:27:36 Okay.
14:27:38 We need to give it some have some advance notice.
14:27:46 And we're only going to be twice a month, then we need to decide what that means you do that fairly early if we want that input to be available.
14:27:55 And are you saying that that should be our meeting for that date or do we need a separate day. How about this, why don't we think about it, and we'll discuss that at our next meeting.
14:28:09 That's my suggestion. Excellent.